The Bad Productivity Habits That Drive Away Your Best Employees - With Cara Silletto
Think your productivity systems are helping your team? They might be driving your best people straight out the door.
Brian sits down with retention expert Cara Silletto, who's spent 13 years figuring out why good employees quit, and the answers will make you rethink everything about your management style. Turns out that one-size-fits-all approach you're so proud of? It's treating orchids like cacti, and your team is withering because of it. Cara reveals the generational blind spots that have leaders scratching their heads while talent walks away, plus the uncomfortable truth about why your "common sense" expectations are anything but common.
This conversation gets tactical fast: discover the ChatGPT trick that instantly exposes whether you're a delegation disaster, learn why your meeting style might be silencing half your team, and find out how your follow-through failures are quietly destroying trust. Brian and Cara dive deep into the spectrum of leadership styles, from micromanagement hell to delegate-and-abandon disasters, showing you exactly where that sweet spot lives.
You'll walk away with the houseplant framework for understanding your team's needs, a system for operationalizing check-ins that actually matter, and the communication preference conversation that stops mind-reading madness before it starts. Plus, they reveal why those productive latchkey Gen Xers are clashing with collaborative millennials and Gen Z workers who need different kinds of support.
If you're hemorrhaging talent, confused why good people keep leaving, or ready to stop accidentally sabotaging your own team's success, this episode maps out the leadership moves that keep your best people around.
Ready to become the boss people actually want to work for? The show notes are packed with tools and templates to get started.
The Video
The Audio/Podcast
References In This Episode
Cara Silletto – Magnet Culture – Cara's LinkedIn profile and Magnet Culture website
Key Resources:
Magnet Vault – Cara's collection of downloadable tools and templates for managers
Get to Know You Sheet – Template for understanding team members' communication and praise preferences (available in Magnet Vault)
Staying Power: Why Your Employees Leave and How to Keep Them Longer – Cara's 2018 book on employee retention
Brian's Resources:
Team Communication Protocol – Blog post and template for establishing clear communication channels and preferences
"This Meeting Could Have Been an Email" – Brian's signature conference session on effective meeting management
Tools & Techniques:
ChatGPT Delegation Test – Use the prompt "ask me questions one at a time until you have everything you need" to evaluate your delegation clarity
Calendar Color-Coding System – Cara's method using purple blocks for non-meeting tasks
One-on-One Agenda Framework – Structure for regular check-ins with team members
Concepts & Frameworks:
Employee Retention Ecosystem – Cara's systematic approach to retention strategy
Houseplant Spectrum – Management framework from high-maintenance "orchids" to low-maintenance "cacti" employees
Latchkey Generation Theory – Understanding generational differences in independence and problem-solving approaches
Communication Preferences Mapping – Systematic approach to understanding how each team member prefers to receive information and feedback
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Productivity and Employee Retention
01:37 Understanding Generational Gaps in the Workforce
03:06 The Impact of Leadership Habits on Employee Retention
06:48 Balancing Processes and People in Leadership
10:28 Identifying Employee Needs: The Houseplant Analogy
13:13 Communication: The Key to Effective Leadership
17:20 Unwritten Expectations and Their Impact on Workplace Culture
19:34 The Importance of Clear Communication in Delegation
23:42 Finding the Balance in Delegation and Empowerment
25:28 Empowering Employees to Find Answers
28:10 The Spectrum of Leadership Styles
30:24 Generational Differences in Critical Thinking
32:36 Time Management and Meeting Effectiveness
37:24 Reliability and Accountability in Leadership
43:07 Making Productivity Skills Contagious
46:21 Operationalizing Check-Ins for Better Communication
Today’s Guest
Cara Silletto
President & Chief Retention Officer, Magnet Culture
Cara Silletto is a workplace retention expert who has spent 13 years helping leaders keep their best people longer by understanding today's multigenerational workforce. Born in 1981 as one of the oldest millennials, she launched her career bridging generational gaps after recognizing that communication breakdowns between managers and employees were driving costly turnover.
Her book, Staying Power: Why Your Employees Leave and How to Keep Them Longer (2018), established her as a leading voice in retention strategy before it became a mainstream business priority. Cara specializes in translating generational differences into actionable management practices, helping leaders adapt their communication and leadership styles to engage everyone from exhausted Gen Xers to collaborative Gen Z workers.
What sets Cara apart is her systematic, process-driven approach to the "softer side" of leadership. Despite being deeply people-focused, she operates like an industrial engineer, creating frameworks and systems that make individualized employee care scalable. Her signature "Employee Retention Ecosystem" and "houseplant spectrum" management model help leaders balance productivity with personalized attention.
Cara's speaking and training programs combine generational insights with practical tools, always asking "who is today's new workforce?" Her team includes Gen Z trainers who help keep her content current as workplace expectations continue evolving. She believes retention isn't just about understanding young employees—it's about recognizing that every generation has shifted their relationship with work over the past decade.
Currently running Magnet Culture as a fully remote team, Cara practices what she preaches about flexible, individualized management while maintaining rigorous operational systems.
Connect with Cara:
LinkedIn: Cara Silletto
Website: magnetculture.com
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About The Creator/Host: I’m Brian. At age 4, I was diagnosed with insulin dependent (type 1) diabetes and told that my life was going to be 10-20 years shorter than everyone else. As a kid I took time for granted, but now as an adult, time is the most precious thing that I have. After spending a career hands-on in the trenches as a leader at all levels, I now train Productivity Gladiators to level up their careers. Graduates wield superpowers in time management, practical leadership, communication, & productivity. If what you’ve seen here intrigues you, reach out, let’s chat!
“Time is the currency of your life, spend it wisely.”
TRANSCRIPT
Brian Nelson-Palmer (00:04.798)
I'm Brian Nelson Palmer. On this show, I share personal, practical productivity skills that will make you more productive and advance your career. And in this episode, we're talking about which of your bad productivity habits are driving away your best employees and how to fix that. And with me on the show today is Cara Silletto who is the president and chief retention officer at Magnet Magnet Culture. Cara, thanks so much for joining me on the show today.
Cara Silletto (00:34.628)
Hey, so glad to be here.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (00:37.228)
This is now talk a little bit about your background and how it relates to our topic today.
Cara Silletto (00:43.316)
Sure, so for the last 13 years I have been a speaker and trainer helping leaders to keep their people longer.
by better understanding the new workforce. I happen to be one of the oldest millennials. I was born in 1981. So I started the business years ago, bridging generational gaps and then realized that the reason I was bridging generational gaps was to reduce employee turnover because folks were not understanding their managers and managers didn't understand their people. So really exciting that we get to talk today about.
leaders and understanding their habits and what attracts staff or what repels staff, right? That's what we talk about at MagnaCulture and so I'm excited to kind of dive into that piece.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (01:28.438)
Yeah. And you know, there's a lot of folks who talk about employee retention. So what would you say makes you different from all the other names you might be, the other person listening might be familiar with?
Cara Silletto (01:33.245)
you
Cara Silletto (01:39.718)
Yeah, sure. So, well, first of all, I like to remind people that we were talking about retention before retention was cool. So I wrote a book in 2018 called Staying Power, Why Your Employees Leave and How to Keep Them Longer. And I would say our secret sauce compared to anybody else, which there's plenty of work out there that needs to be done. And I'm glad to have a lot of friends in this space as well. But our secret sauce is that generational lens because every class, every keynote, every workshop,
that we do has to look at who is today's new workforce. So of course now we're talking a lot about Gen Z and I have Gen Z folks on my speaking and training team who help bridge those gaps.
We just recently updated all of that generational content from the millennial mindset over to the Gen Z mindset. And even Xers and Boomers and every generation in the workplace has changed their mindset about the employer employee relationship over the last 10 years. And so when I say the new workforce, it doesn't just mean young people or brand new hires with their first job. It is also exhausted Gen Xers who have said enough is enough.
I don't want to be a workaholic anymore. And so we really have to think about what's going on around us in society and with our families and priority shifts and all of those things to truly be a great leader today because one size no longer fits all on really communicating and understanding your folks.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (03:14.092)
Yeah, I can't wait to talk about this. And with that background, let's let's jump in. So let's start with the connection that most leaders miss, which is which of your own productivity habits directly impact whether your best people leave or stay. So on that topic, without me saying anything else, what comes to mind for you, Cara? What are your thoughts?
Cara Silletto (03:17.647)
you
Cara Silletto (03:38.174)
Sure. So just to lay the groundwork here, I would have been an industrial engineer had I known that those existed because you guys, I love processes more than anybody you've ever met. I want to operationalize and systemize every single thing for myself, for my team, you know, my clients. And so just know that even though I'm a people person and talk about the softer side of leadership and, and HR and things like
I am very very process driven. However, there is a balance between true productivity of the fastest way to get things done and the rinse and repeat model that you want to use to be as productive as possible throughout your day versus the individualized care.
that each of your employees needs. So those two things right there kind of battle each other of how can I be as efficient as possible, but still listen and still flex and adjust my approach. So that's what kind of comes to mind first is anybody who's working on their productivity or who is nailing it on the productivity side, you're probably also putting in place some bad habits of just
that one size fits all, well here's how I do it. ABCD, ABCD, ABCD, over and over with your processes and your approach and you might be missing the boat because not everybody likes that ABCD approach and that may not be the best way to communicate with certain people.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (05:13.164)
You know, can we, I want to talk about that a little bit because I have, I'm coming from a lens that, I'm a Lean Six Sigma black belt and you and me and processes like, Cara, we're going to get along. yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that comes from the Toyota way and the, the process improvement lens is that standardized work is easier work. So I think separating the people part from the process part,
Cara Silletto (05:20.273)
Yes, love it.
Yes!
Cara Silletto (05:32.722)
Yes.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (05:42.891)
I, I, in my head, I still think processes, well, let me put it this way. I, I believe that many times organizations get, they get stuck on, there's, there's almost a two step process to level up an organization. Step one is to get better people. And a lot of organizations are good at that and they focus entirely on that. And how do we get and keep better people?
And I think there's another level that organizations miss from a productivity perspective. And that is better processes mean you can swap out the people and the work can still get done. So I think that standardized processes are laid out with an SOP and like that, the ability to take one person out so that they can go on a two week trip to Europe. Thank you very much. You should be able to take vacations and
Cara Silletto (06:36.059)
Yes, free vacation.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (06:37.466)
You can leave, right? You can leave and somebody else can step in while you're gone because we figured out the process. So, so when you just said that there, I was thinking, well, I don't know, man, it sounds so, can you talk about separating process from people? Talk more about the people angle to that, because I feel like the processes are having that standardized work is going to be better.
Cara Silletto (07:01.283)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we're totally on the same page so far. So the difference is you're talking about the process to get the job done. And I definitely think you need SOPs. You should absolutely have everything documented and checklisted and in your systems, kind of foolproof, all of those steps that a person would need to take to get the job done. But as a leader, let's shift away from just get the job done.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (07:04.814)
Okay.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (07:10.798)
Okay.
Cara Silletto (07:27.865)
I also need to lead my people. need to communicate in an effective way. I need to praise them, you know, when they do a great job and things like that. And that leadership communication, the leadership approach that we have, that is harder to systemize or to put an SOP on it because the way we describe it is we actually created just earlier this year in 2025, we created the employee retention ecosystem.
And it is somewhat similar. I mean, it came from the idea of the entrepreneurial operating system. Probably many of you are familiar with EOS. We operate off of EOS at our company. So we have standard operating procedures and we audit ourselves on how we're running the business. And we have standard meeting agendas and things like that. It's a great way to run the business.
And so we created this ecosystem for employee retention to also look at different areas of the business from compensation to onboarding to leadership development planning, know, what kind of leadership training do you have at your company? We have, we have put a process and an audit in place for the company to look at retention. But when it gets down to being a leader, it comes down to how do you acclimate your new people coming in?
and then cultivate them over time. And those are the areas that you have to really know your people and be able to flex. So if we take this ecosystem model, you you think of your backyard of the worms and the trees and the squirrels and everybody has to work together in that ecosystem for everything to flourish. And so what we have decided is that every employee is a houseplant. Think about the spectrum of houseplants out there. There are some
high maintenance house plants like orchids. They need delicate attention, they wither very easily and quickly if they're done wrong, you know, that type of thing. And we all know we've got employees sometimes who need a little more extra tender care and those gloves, you know. Then you've got the other end of the spectrum of house plants, which is a house plant that needs very little attention, like a cactus, okay? If you've got a cactus in a pot sitting in your office, you could water that sucker
Cara Silletto (09:49.228)
maybe once a month and it's still gonna be fine. So you've also got employees like that. Both of them, the orchid and the cactus are both doing the job and need the processes to do their jobs well. But as a leader, I need to know how much attention and care do I need to give these folks? Because my orchids on my team are gonna want regular check-ins daily, a few times a week, things like that, where the cactus on my team is like, boss, I got this.
leave me alone, I will come to you if I have a problem. Check in once a month. Thank you very much. You know, and so, so another way that you can, can somewhat put a process behind your check-ins with your people, for example, is to identify what level of care people need.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (10:22.314)
Right.
Cara Silletto (10:35.827)
And then you can figure out, daily, who do I need to check in with? Weekly, who do I need to check in with? Monthly, who do I need to check in with? And then you can almost set a calendar to that. Now, of course, some people go through a tough time and some people shift from being in the middle to being more high maintenance or low maintenance at different times. So it doesn't stay, you know, they don't always stay the same house plant forever, but that is a way to kind of...
I want to say compartmentalize, it's not the right word, categorize, right? To categorize your folks into how often do I need to be checking in with them, giving praise, you know, making sure that they don't need me or offering more support.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (11:18.04)
Got it. Okay, that makes more sense now on what we're talking about. It's how you support the people is a little different. You can't standardize that. And I like, I...
Cara Silletto (11:26.073)
Yes, it's tougher. We're working on it, it but it's much tougher to standardize that than it is the actual job that's getting done.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (11:33.825)
Yeah, you know, let's dive into some specifics then. So like I, and I'll start, have, I, stories are fun for me and I have an anecdote. My, one of my stories is I had a boss who basically taught me that I should be late to meetings with her. And the reason is because every time we had some sort of staff meeting, she did that thing. And you've been in meetings with bosses that do this, where they start the meeting.
and then somebody comes in late and they go back and they catch that person up on what they missed. And so we start at 8 a.m. and then at 8.02 a.m. Joe comes in late and she catches Joe up. And then at 8.05 a.m. Carrie comes in later and she catches Carrie up on everything in the first five minutes. So what I learned from her was
Cara Silletto (12:07.802)
No
Brian Nelson-Palmer (12:30.15)
I needed to be the last one to walk into the meeting because otherwise she was gonna waste my time if I was on time to her meetings. And that's a horrible example. And you shouldn't do that. And I don't love that. But as a boss, like, you don't want, I feel like that's, it's almost like you're showing, you're rewarding the bad behavior because if they come in late, instead of it being on them to catch up,
Cara Silletto (12:35.409)
Yes.
Cara Silletto (12:54.929)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (12:59.852)
you're like rewarding them and doing it for them, which was, so I ended up being the late one. And then you know what? She would catch me up. And there was a piece of me that knows that that's wrong. And I shouldn't do that. And at the same time I would sit like I could see the conference room where we were supposed to have the meeting. And so if I saw that everybody wasn't in there and I knew that somebody was running late, I would not go. I would stay at my desk and do other stuff until that's done. So that's just one example of like a thing that
Cara Silletto (13:26.323)
Absolutely.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (13:29.47)
might drive your employees crazy or affect your retention is if you're doing something funny like that. I care other, that's just one example, but what other specific thoughts come to mind on stuff like that?
Cara Silletto (13:41.892)
Yes. So sometimes you think you're doing the right thing. So this person thought I'm doing the right thing by catching up these other people when really they were, it was counter intuitive or working against them because it created this other behavior, this other habit of you coming in late. Absolutely. So it makes me think immediately of a little bit more self-awareness of the manager of what am I doing and what is working and what is not.
What are the unintended consequences of my current approach? There's lots of different examples of that. And as far as communication to me is the absolute most critical skill that every leader has to continue working on. I mean, we all communicate all day long and we think we're good at it. We are not, most of us. Let me just kind of...
Brian Nelson-Palmer (14:32.984)
Yeah.
Cara Silletto (14:34.759)
put the judgment out there. We all have a lot to learn about communication, being a better listener, adapting to your audience, really prepping and thinking before you speak. mean, there's so many different skills with communication that you can continue to get better at. And I would say another big misstep that I see oftentimes is this judgment and assumption that people can read your mind.
So I'll tell you a story here. At my first job, now it was a desk job, there was about 10 people who worked there and nobody came in unexpectedly at this office. It was just us. We didn't have any visitors or customers that came in. And so about three o'clock every day, I would kick off my cute little high heels under my desk and I would walk to the copier barefoot, Brian, because...
Who cares? It's just us. We're all friends here. So I would mosey around and even stop in people's doorways and talk to them barefoot. I didn't think anything of it because the carpet was cleaned almost every night. Honestly, it was cleaner than my living room floor. So I knew that wasn't going to be an issue and we were not OSHA, you know, oversaw or anything as far as rules with wearing steel boots and things like that. So.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (15:40.021)
you
Cara Silletto (15:51.11)
I didn't think it was a big deal, but boy was I wrong. Now there were these two ladies in our office who told everybody else she should know better. She should keep her shoes on at the office. Who doesn't know that? Come on. That's just common sense. I shouldn't have to tell her that. And these phrases of judgment, my favorite one is the common sense judgment, but these phrases of judgment,
happen all the time. And Brian, let me ask you a question. Who do you think they told that it was inappropriate and unprofessional? Who do you think they told that when they saw my behavior?
Brian Nelson-Palmer (16:31.272)
everybody except you.
Cara Silletto (16:32.831)
Ding, ding. Exactly, winner, winner, chicken dinner. So they told everybody else, which means they're gossiping about me, they're talking about me behind my back, and it took a peer of mine who was a few years older, kind of like a big sis in the office, she came to me and said, Cara, I gotta tell you, you know, your bare feet are distracting people from the great work that you're doing.
And I see your professionalism, you're hitting deadlines, you're doing quality work, you're here on time, you're doing all these great things as a young professional, but your bare feet are ruining your reputation and you really need to bring in some flats or don't wear heels anymore. Whatever you gotta do to keep your shoes on all day, the whole day at the office. But when I looked back, I thought, okay, that was not talked about during orientation.
It was not in the handbook that we had to keep our shoes on. And I see you laughing, Brian, but, the thing is I didn't know what I didn't know. And I just did not think it was a big deal. So you can judge little baby professional Cara all you want, but nobody told me that I had to keep my shoes on for those first few months. So what do you think I did then after Tammy came and told me about the expectation, this unwritten expectation?
I kept my shoes on, I changed my behavior, I did what they expected, I met those unwritten rules that they had put upon me. And so I think another big piece of the puzzle is this judgment and a lack of communicating the expectations, particularly the unwritten expectations. So when people miss the mark and you think to yourself, she should know better, or I can't believe he did that, who does that? You know, that's just common sense.
Now I hope you as a leader are going to remember and say, wait, wait, wait, I remembered, I have to communicate my expectations more clearly or the company's unwritten rules more clearly. And sometimes I'll be honest, we have to acknowledge the obvious because there is such a big difference in the way that we have all been raised over these last, you know, 50, 60, 70, 80 years that not everybody was raised.
Cara Silletto (18:54.865)
like you were or I was and people didn't get the same mentoring and the same upbringing mantras. Like if you're not early, you're late. So not everybody heard that one and that is not how they were raised.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (19:04.267)
Right. Yeah.
You know, that reminds me a lot of the every year. If you work at an organization, you've probably been through the anti-discrimination annual training and the anti there's there's sexual harassment training and there's there's annual trainings for a bunch of things. And I love what you said about you have to you have to take a minute and share.
If somebody misses the mark on something, especially you as a leader, you have to share that. You have to communicate that somehow, and you don't have to make it a big deal. But you do pull them aside or shoot them a text or a chat or something and say, hey, Cara, can you keep your shoes on just for the, it's a little bit distracting, believe it or not. And you don't have to make it a big deal, right?
Oftentimes, if you just address it and you don't make it a big deal, I would say more than half the time, whatever that thing is, is gonna go away and never be an issue again. And there are situations where, you every leader has faced the people who don't do what they've been told to do. So, and that's gonna happen. But you still gotta address it, but it doesn't have to be a big deal. It doesn't have to call HR. doesn't have to, it's not gonna, like, you have to communicate. So,
Cara Silletto (20:09.874)
Mm-hmm.
Cara Silletto (20:16.423)
Absolutely.
Cara Silletto (20:23.943)
Mm-hmm.
Cara Silletto (20:35.303)
Yes. And it's not always, it's not like you're reprimanding the person. Tammy didn't come to me and say, what are you doing taking your shoes off? You keep them on, you know, she did not reprimand me. I honestly, even if the person reports to me, I take more of like a big sis or a big, big bro approach of kind of a mentor of, Hey, let me let you in on a little secret.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (20:36.043)
I love what she said about it. Do it.
Cara Silletto (20:57.875)
of some unwritten expectations. I know nobody told you, but I just wanted to let you know. And if you can throw in a what's in it for them to change the behavior, all the better. Because what Tammy actually said to me was, Hey, I see the professionalism that you're bringing to the table, but your one action is negating all this other great stuff you're doing. So if you change this one behavior, this one action and keep your shoes on,
you are going to get a lot more respect around here and I think people will then start to notice more of the great things you're doing instead of that distraction of your bare feet. So she didn't reprimand me, she helped me understand what I didn't know and she told me what I could gain from changing that behavior.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (21:44.858)
What's in it for you? You know, I want to bring, this brings up another one of my funny anecdotes that I have, and that is I had a boss, along this, along the same lines of expectations, I had a boss who used to delegate tasks to me, but then she would not tell, she would already have an idea in her head of what she was looking for, but she would have tell me.
Cara Silletto (21:59.988)
Mm-hmm.
Cara Silletto (22:09.914)
Okay.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (22:12.367)
Hey, go do this task. And she would not communicate. We're back to the communication and expectations here, but she would not communicate. So what would happen is I would do the task the way I interpret it. And then I would bring it to her and she said, she would go, no, that isn't what I was thinking about. You missed the mark on this or, and so then I would go back and I would do it again.
And then when I would come back, she would say, oh, well, you're missing this point and you're missing this point here and you're missing this point here. And so I wanted to pull my hair out because it was like, if you would have told me these things upfront, then you would have saved me a lot of anxiety and stress and whatever. And so I do have, I have a treat for you listening, which is there is a free tool that you have access to where you can find out just how good or bad
Cara Silletto (22:52.786)
Yes.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (23:09.143)
your delegation skills are when it comes to communicating expectations. And you know what that is? Chat GPT. And here's how. Here's how. Do I want you to give chat GPT a task and then, and you've heard me say this on previous episodes too, the, the, the one magical sentence you put at the bottom of your prompt is ask me questions one at a time until you have everything you need. And if you give chat GPT a task,
and it has more than three questions, this is a skill that you can probably work on because we didn't give it enough information. It's impossible to do it perfect. It's normal for there to be a question or two or something. But if Chad's GPT has a laundry list of questions and it comes back to you with, what about this? And what about this? And what about this? Then that is a flag for you that this might also bleed into what it's like working with you as a human to a human because
Cara Silletto (23:44.883)
Yeah!
Cara Silletto (23:55.688)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (24:07.907)
You're not really sharing. that's a little indicator for yourself. Try it. Try it. And man, but that's a funny anecdote about expectations.
Cara Silletto (24:08.147)
Yes!
Cara Silletto (24:16.847)
Okay, so news flash, we, we, we, here we go. Your staff can't read your mind. And I'm gonna give them.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (24:26.278)
Oh my god. I'm sorry, wait. Cara, can you, can I just save that news flash for my wife too? I kind of want to send it to her too.
Cara Silletto (24:32.307)
I was just gonna say that. It works at home as well. Like bonus, your spouse, your kids, your mom cannot read your mind. So, you know, absolutely that I always bring that up on the spouse side, because I can't tell you how often I have to say that to my husband of I can't read your mind because he will say things out of context. And I, didn't talk about that.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (24:36.996)
Yeah.
You
Brian Nelson-Palmer (24:43.855)
You know, true story.
Cara Silletto (24:59.315)
since yesterday, so I don't even know what you're talking about when he says like, I picked it up today. Picked up what? I've slept since then and I have no idea what you're talking about. So yeah, other people can not read your mind. And it's funny when you talked about delegation because I feel like there's two different, there's two different spectrums of delegation and in the middle is really where you want to be very effective and good communication.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (25:02.68)
Right.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (25:09.848)
Yeah.
Cara Silletto (25:23.699)
but one is like micromanaging. If I'm gonna delegate and then I'm gonna tell you every little thing you need to do without giving you a process, know, if I can delegate and give you a process, great, but if I'm gonna expect you to know every step and you can't read my mind, that's a problem. And that's that good old micromanagement that GenX hated years ago. The other end is I hear people use this word like,
empower, I'm just going to empower my people to do it themselves. I'm going to empower them to make the decision. And we sometimes relate to that as delegate and abandon because they will say, well, I'm going to, I'm just going to delegate or empower them to do it. But then they don't give the person the tools to do it. So then they're mad that it was done wrong or that it wasn't done the way they wanted it to be.
and they didn't step in to micromanage and say, now do this, now do this, now do this, now do this. So be really careful about the way that you are delegating, because it can kind of go wrong in either direction. Too much communication, too little communication, and having processes in place is great for any steps or repeatable processes and procedures when possible. But yeah, you got to be real careful about your delegation communication. That's a delicate one.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (26:45.301)
Absolutely. know, Cara, I've got another anecdote I want to ask you about because I'm conflicted on this one. I had a boss that used to drive me bananas because he would never answer the dang question. You might have had a supervisor like this where you come to them and they say, well, what do you think? And then you would tell them what you think. And then they're like, well, did you think about this?
Cara Silletto (27:06.707)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (27:11.417)
Well, what else could you do? And at some point, I'm just looking for you to tell me what to do. Like, please for the, just say that I came with a question, I'm looking for an answer. And on the reason I'm conflicted on this is that I used to be very clear that you should answer the dang question. And then I learned that there are also employees who are too lazy to look it up themselves and they would rather ask you the question than go find the answer.
Cara Silletto (27:20.424)
Yes.
Cara Silletto (27:35.346)
Brian Nelson-Palmer (27:40.708)
So I had to modify my answer the day in question advice a little bit and say, okay, ask them their thoughts first and what they did to try to find the answer. And if they didn't do anything, then cut off the laziness and say, go find it. Like give it a try first and then come back to me if you can and I might be able to help. But at the same time, I want, people should feel empowered. As a leader, you should absolutely empower your people to,
you what they think you need to care about what they think. So I think that's important from a retention perspective. They are a smart person. You should treat them that way. So don't tell them that they're stupid or tell them that they didn't do it or tell them they did it wrong. You should, but after they've given you their thoughts, you're allowed to disagree. You're allowed to send them in another, in another direction, but also answer the question. Don't just do that thing where you're leaving them like, no, keep
Keep floundering, keep floundering, and eventually you'll get there. You're not helping with that.
Cara Silletto (28:45.119)
Absolutely. Okay, so I'm gonna sound like a broken record because as a leader you gotta understand there's a spectrum, okay, for so many things, right? We've got our orchids and our cactus, houseplant spectrum, we've got introvert, extrovert, you know, how people like to be praised and communicated with, you've got all these different spectrums, that delegation when we just talked about, and I think this one is the same and it's why you're torn because just answer the question is on one end of the spectrum.
But the problem is if a leader only does that when their people come and ask them a question and they answer it, then they're not building their team's critical thinking skills, which is where I heard you going here. You said lazy, right? Which is like looking up yourself, figure it out yourself. Yes, I'm independent, absolutely.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (29:33.175)
or independence, let's call it independence. I want to build their independence.
Cara Silletto (29:36.67)
But then at the other end of the spectrum was this boss that drove you nutso because he said, well, what do you think? What do you think? What would be your answer? And constantly trying to get you to think of that. So again, there's a spectrum here. You have to be self-aware enough to know where you fall as a leader and a communicator on that spectrum. But let me share this story with you. This is one of our kind of secret sauce generational background lens stories.
So we all know what a latchkey kid is. And in the seventies in particular, and going into the eighties, a lot of Gen Xers, they were latchkey kids, which was when we literally latch a key to your backpack or around your neck. And the moms went to work once those kiddos were of school age where the baby boomer moms had mostly stayed at home. The Gen X kids, their parents, when they got to school, they went to work.
What changed in our society is that that 3.30 to five or six o'clock after school, these latchkey kids came home by themselves. And when I do workshops, I have people tell me that at seven, eight, nine years old, they were coming home to an empty house with the list of chores on the kitchen table, the don't burn down the house making a snack on the stove, get your own homework done, even though you don't have Google, just figure it out on your own and stay on the block.
Right? If you ride your bike or whatever, like don't go too far. Although some Gen Xers, they went as far as they wanted, which was fine. So here's what happened in the 1980s. Everything changed in our society as far as our parenting model, because we shifted over to this mantra of stranger danger. And that changed from the seventies to the early nineties, because in the eighties,
We had all these TV shows like America's Most Wanted. They've done these heinous crimes and they're still on the loose. They might come to your small town next. You know, they scared the bejeebers out of all these parents. And there was, mean, I could list more and more crime shows. There was also 24 hour news network, which we had never had access to hear about the little six year old in Maryland who got kidnapped out of her own front yard.
Cara Silletto (31:53.972)
That made the news because there was more 24 hour news network time and all of that. So by the 1990s, all these after school care programs had popped up, even funding for that. And people kind of normalized, oh, you can't let your kids stay at home at least until they're 12 or 14, you know, that kind of thing. So why am I telling you about Latchkey Kids? Because they were the independent critical thinking Gen Xers.
who came into the work world and said, I got this boss, I can figure this out. I don't need onboarding. And we switched a lot of companies over to like sink or swim onboarding model. They'll figure it out. Just give them the computer, put them on the line, know, whatever the job was. And so then when you had the millennials come into the work world who were raised in the eighties and nineties, who were not as young of latchkey kids, we did not get that young.
critical thinking, problem solving experience at eight, 10, 12 years old, like the people who came before us. And so we came into the work world saying, what, how do I do that? Where do I find that? I don't know how to do that. I've never done that before. My boss is setting me up to fail. They just told me to do it and didn't give me any training, any instructions, any guidance, any support, you know, all of this.
So we see managers who've been in the work world a long time, they look at this newer workforce, millennials and especially Gen Z now, they say, well, they're lazy. They can't figure it out on their own. They have no problem solving skills. And so if we go back to this spectrum of leadership, how much do we need to communicate with them? Do we need to answer the question or do we need to help them answer the question? I would say it depends on that person's
ability to think critically? Do they understand the resources available to them? Have they already tried to look it up and they just need the answer because they're coming to you for a reason and it is not to help them think more critically. You know if you know your people and you know what they would have already done before they showed up at your desk or you know texting you for it then then you're going to be able to figure out where to be on that spectrum.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (34:12.761)
for sure. A lot of I love the point that you continue to make here, which is it is not a one size fits all. And yet also don't be intimidated by, or at least the way you're talking about it, I'm also not intimidated by, you gotta have a million different options either. Really, you're gonna have.
two, maybe three approaches in the way that you deal with people, two, three, maybe four, something like that, where they're gonna generally work better in relating to the people in one of these two or three different ways. And recognizing that it's not just one approach, but two or three that's better, that's a super powerful skill that we're talking about, Caris. I love that. And I wanna go on to...
Let's talk about time management for a second, because I think from a time management perspective, one of the four signature sessions that I do at conferences and at organizations all the time is the name of my session is this meeting could have been an email. And that's one that is that topic is so relevant right now. And especially with after COVID doing even more teams meetings and all that kind of stuff, like meetings are
Cara Silletto (35:24.742)
Nice.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (35:37.877)
Not if it could have been an email, that was a waste of a meeting and that kind of stuff. And that's that's like the tip of the iceberg on the time management stuff. So from your lens, I'm curious, what's your thoughts on what are the mistakes that managers make with time management that drive their people away?
Cara Silletto (35:56.646)
Okay, so big shocker, one size doesn't fit all. We're gonna make that just the new title of this podcast today because you have to understand not only like what could be an email versus what could be a meeting, but...
Brian Nelson-Palmer (36:04.836)
Haha
Cara Silletto (36:14.275)
Do your people like to collaborate more and are they external processors of let's brainstorm this together, let's think about it together, or are they more introverted and internal processors of shoot me the email, let me think about it on my own time and I will get back to you because I made the mistake. My whole team is remote across the country. We've been on Zoom, you know, for 10 years doing virtual work and
Brian Nelson-Palmer (36:41.007)
Yeah.
Cara Silletto (36:42.085)
And I made the mistake of, because I am an extrovert and an external processor, I would schedule a brainstorming meeting and think that everybody would show up and then we'd all think out loud and work together. And my introverted team members were like, could you give me the agenda before I show up? Like, could you tell me what the questions are that we're going to be discussing or brainstorming? Because I have to think on my own and bring it to the meeting. I can't just, you know, think on the fly.
And so sometimes we schedule a meeting that half of the people are thrilled and like collaborative and this was a great productive meeting. And the other people were like, they just brainstormed and decided everything and didn't even give me time to think about it. And we were thinking, we just gave you an hour to think about it. We've been sitting in here thinking about it for 60 minutes. And so if you know your people, how they process information, what their preferences are, every time I hire a new person,
One of my onboarding checklist items, which is a really great thing to do, every manager should have their own little checklist of unwritten expectations. One of mine is to talk about communication preferences. And I tell them I like chat messages for this reason, you know, a quick question or something like that. I like email if it's something I need to be able to reference later or if it's longer detailed information, you know, I want a phone call.
or a Zoom call if we need to talk through something or it's emotional or nuanced or whatever. And so we walk through what all the different preferences are of the different communication channels. I tell them my preferences and I ask them for their preferences. And that way I know a little more about them. And we even made a get to know you sheet, which if you go to magnetvault.com,
That is our hidden treasure trove of all kinds of downloadable tools and templates for managers. And one of those tools in there is a get to know you sheet because it asks, how do you like to be praised for good work? How do you want to prefer communication? And it has different questions like that that will help you understand each individual on your team and then be able to flex your style. And then you can maybe...
Cara Silletto (39:02.663)
have a more effective meeting if you send the email beforehand with these are the questions we're going to talk about if you want to think about them beforehand then you bring everybody together and the brainstorming happens more effectively with everybody involved.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (39:16.751)
for sure. And I'm gonna yes and you there because I did an episode not long ago where we talked about a team communication protocol, which is something that's super powerful for all of these different channels that you have and how to use them. And so I'll also, I'll make sure that in the links, in your links to this episode, you'll get the Magnet Vault. That's a very cool resource. And I'm also gonna include in here, in those links, I wrote up a blog and I did a template.
Cara Silletto (39:26.898)
Yes!
Brian Nelson-Palmer (39:45.776)
of a team communication protocol that you can use as a like, here's how this works. And there's a blog post that explains it. But so either one of those, love that, like we were basically driving at the same thing from two different perspectives, which is let's talk about what are the best ways to communicate among us. And like, that's a, that's a, that's a really powerful point. I like that, Cara. Okay. Let's talk about, I got one more for you. Can we talk about reliability? You need to be able to count on
Cara Silletto (39:53.202)
Love it.
Cara Silletto (40:05.939)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (40:13.967)
account on manager. So for you listening, my question is, do you have a system where you know that if an employee comes to you, you're going to capture whatever that employee needs in this system, whether it's a to do list or a notes or something like that. Do you have a system for that? Because you'd be surprised at how many people don't have a system for that. And I can honestly tell you that if I have to
the some of the best bosses that I've had, one of their attributes was that if I came to them because I needed something, I did not have to remind them about that something like they came through on whatever that is. So it's the reliability and accountability as a leader. That's a super important skill. So for yourself, if you don't already have a system that you have high confidence in, like you and you, you'll know this because I can tell you if your employees,
Cara Silletto (40:52.061)
Yes.
Cara Silletto (40:59.505)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (41:12.025)
have come to you to follow up about something that they asked you about. That means that you don't have that. That's a sign for yourself that maybe my system needs a tune up because if they have to follow up with you, then you missed it. And that's something that would be really frustrating for them because one of the other things that most organizations have is this, don't want to go outside chain of command has different, different perspectives and different organizations, but
Cara Silletto (41:15.847)
Yep.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (41:41.236)
If my generally the first step in just about every organization is to talk to your leader, talk to your supervisor. And so if they talk to you and you don't actually get back to them or follow through on whatever was talked to, then they're stuck because they can't, their first step isn't taking them anywhere. And so then they can start to go around. And anyway, that I can cascade and go on for that for a little bit of time, but that's just one example. Carol, what are your thoughts on reliability and accountability for me?
Cara Silletto (41:48.723)
Mm-hmm.
Cara Silletto (42:09.837)
Absolutely. Okay, this is another one like communication. We could all improve. We could all improve because we do not have a perfect memory. And I remember in college, I was a hostess at a nice steakhouse and people said, why aren't you a server? And I said, because if somebody asks me to go get ketchup and I turn around and someone else asks me, how was your weekend?
there is no chance I will remember the ketchup. You know, I just knew that my brain was not wired to remember that ketchup. So going into the business world, my mom, she would get so mad at me growing up that I always forgot to do my chores that she would say, take out the trash or clean your room. And she had to tell me three times. And so she told me when I got my first big girl job, she said, you need to learn how to use Post-it notes.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (42:39.097)
through story.
Cara Silletto (42:58.387)
And you need you better write down whatever anybody tells you your boss your peers Whatever if they tell you to do something you write it down because you have a terrible memory and you're gonna get fired Because you're not gonna do what they say. So I actually overcompensated and learned how to use systems and apps and checklists and post-it notes and and my calendar and everything and I write everything down and it has saved me it has absolutely saved me but it's also
I think the underlying thing that you're working on here is building trust. And it has built trust with people because people know if they ask me to do something, I will get it done. And I don't have to be reminded. I don't have to be asked twice and it will be done by the deadline if you give me a deadline. So I use my calendar most of the time because I just want to put everything in one place unless it's more like project work. have a project system for that. But if it's just, Hey, can you
look at this tomorrow morning and give me feedback on it or whatever they're asking. I will block a little section of my calendar and big shocker, my calendar is color coded. So my, my tasks that are not meetings are purple and I have a task and I'll even move it around, you know, maybe not in the morning. If I can't get to it, I'll move it around. But by the end of the week, I make sure all those purple tasks that were on my calendar got done or get moved to Monday, if that's appropriate, you know, to the next week. So make sure you're,
just like Brian said, putting a system in place of writing things down, either texting it to yourself, making memos, Post-it notes, calendar, whatever you've got to do, because this is a trust building activity with your team to really perfect your follow through. It cannot be understated or overstated. Yeah.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (44:48.259)
Yes. And you know, Carrie, you and I are polar opposites in this one too. And I, you know, I just went through this with, gosh, a while ago I had, was like 10, did 10 top tips for new managers or something. And I did it with another guy who does some productivity stuff and his approach was to put everything on his calendar. And I, that's like having a different religion for me. Like I don't,
I think that is such a bad idea. And the reason is because it gets lost in the calendar. So to me, your calendar is for where you need to be and your to-do list is for what you need to do. And so I have a system for my to-do list. And if I put it on the count, I got burned trying to do to-do list stuff on the calendar. So I'm sharing that not because I don't want you listening right now to think that, my God, well, who's right, who's wrong.
There's not, everybody has a different system and Cara is very successful and has her own organization and teaches this stuff and she uses her calendar. So I see the point that maybe you might have a different system and I could teach you a much better system. Thank you very much for her to do with whatever everybody's got their system. But the bottom line is you have a system and it is 100 % reliable.
Cara Silletto (46:02.503)
Mm-hmm.
Cara Silletto (46:06.875)
Yes!
Brian Nelson-Palmer (46:16.567)
And if you have that, then that's fine. if you, like, if you get to a point where you scale and you're so busy that your system starts to fail you, then you need to work on the system because you need to have a system to be able to deliver as a leader. So I think that, ultimately, the point is very important. How you get there has some flexibility, as long as it is 100 % reliable.
Cara Silletto (46:16.627)
Mm-hmm.
Cara Silletto (46:35.409)
Yes.
Cara Silletto (46:41.137)
Yes, that's it. That's it.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (46:43.663)
Totally. How can managers make these things contagious? So the team naturally adopts them to some of these ideas. do you have any thoughts or recommendations on, because you can't, it's awkward to like, here's the thing. If you tell somebody you want them to go to training, training generally,
Cara Silletto (46:54.099)
Mmm.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (47:09.473)
unfortunately comes across as you're not doing a good enough job, so I'm sending you to training. Like it's that, or you're new, so I need you to take this training. But if you have somebody who maybe isn't good with time management or doesn't have good meetings or doesn't, if you tell them, I'm gonna send them, I'm gonna send you to training, that almost sounds like you're broken and we need to fix you. So what are your thoughts on making it contagious or helping people level up?
Cara Silletto (47:33.682)
Yeah.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (47:38.615)
without telling them they're broken first.
Cara Silletto (47:41.3)
Sure. So the best first step is lead by example, because if you have a good system in place, other people are going to see that you're not dropping the ball. You're not miscommunicating. You're not completely like, I forgot that, you know, and all over the place. So people will look to you as a mentor, even if that's informal to put a system like yours in place. So that's a good starting point. And then if you're in a position that you can,
implement certain tools or certain processes so that your team is all doing it the same way, then great. So get the app, get the tool, make the checklist, you know, and make it together so everybody has buy-in and that type of thing. Now my team gets together every year for a staff retreat. We fly everybody in to work together that week and that week we block a section of time to talk about
communication preferences, have they changed? Are there new systems in place? Are there new ways of operating? We switched, for example, from all the Microsoft documents over to Google documents because we could collaborate in it a little more effectively. We could tag people. We could be working in the same document at the same time without disrupting versions and things like that. So we had to shift our communication.
of how do we assign things to other people and we decided instead of shooting an email, you just tag the person in the document. And so every year we talk about what are you guys like about this? What are you not? And when a new person comes on our team, not only do we get them up to speed on our standard best practices or preferred practices, but we ask them, hey, you've got fresh eyes here. If you see something we're doing and you think it's actually not as efficient as it could be, especially with AI coming to the table now,
then we say, hey, let us know. And that was actually our latest employee that we hired 18 months ago or so. She's the reason we switched to the Google Docs because she was the one who taught us about being able to tag and do assignments within the documents. So if you value a new fresh pair of eyes on your team, you can actually learn from what they did at their last job or what they've learned. Especially you got to stay on top of AI right now as well.
Cara Silletto (50:03.163)
and see what kind of efficiency and productivity it can bring to you.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (50:08.203)
Absolutely. And the different perspectives is going to be really valuable for all of that. that's, I love that. So two last questions then. One is the first one is what's the one productivity skill that has the biggest impact? If Cara, if you had to pick one, what's the one that you must fix right now before any other, what's the biggest impact? What's that?
Cara Silletto (50:12.199)
Yeah. Yeah.
Cara Silletto (50:33.681)
Yeah, think trying to operationalize your check-ins with people is really, really critical. So you've got to think about that. What do I need to do daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annually? Like what kind of check-ins do I need to have with my people throughout the month, throughout the year? Because...
That should be on your calendar, I think. And that way you're connecting with each person. This isn't about like, know, processes of getting the job done. It's a process of getting to know your people and to make sure that you're supporting them and communicating with them effectively. So operationalizing your check-ins.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (51:19.503)
operationalizing your check ins. I like that. And when you say operationalizing, it's Cadence operationalized means cadence and content of that check in. True? Okay.
Cara Silletto (51:21.48)
Mm-hmm.
Cara Silletto (51:35.092)
yeah, so I have certain timing that I check in with people and then what's the agenda for that check-in? If it's the annual check-in, know, more performance review type of conversation, which is a whole other hour, but yeah, is it that or is it just a supportive check-in? Like, hey, do you need anything from me? Cause those should be a lot more often than a performance discussion and things. So yes, thinking about the cadence and frequency and then what should those agendas look like?
Brian Nelson-Palmer (51:42.061)
Yes.
Cara Silletto (52:04.539)
of what are we covering in those check-ins.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (52:05.603)
Yes. And you know, can I tell a sneak peek here? I want you to self think for a second. If your one-on-one calendar events do not have an agenda in the calendar event, there's your homework right there. Or what's, what's that? Because oftentimes I can't tell you how many working in organizations, I can't tell you how many calendar events come through and it just has a title.
Cara Silletto (52:21.67)
and ding.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (52:34.689)
and there's no agenda. even if, so like, even if your check-in involves me sharing updates and then you sharing updates, that's your agenda, but there should be an agenda in there. Please put an agenda in all of your calendar invites. If you want to have effective meetings, there needs to be an agenda. So love that. That's, that's great. And one more for you, Cara, what's to the person listening right now who realizes if
Cara Silletto (52:36.889)
No contact either. Come on.
Cara Silletto (52:49.256)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (53:03.701)
if something we talked about was a flag and they went, I don't do that. Or I could do that better. ooh, look, we just said, I have one-on-one calendar invites. What's the first change? Like, where do they go from here? What would your advice be after listening to you and I jabber for a little while?
Cara Silletto (53:10.227)
Yeah.
Cara Silletto (53:28.349)
my goodness. So, one is you can get an accountability buddy.
If you have self-identified now that, ooh, I really need to work on my delegation skills or whatever piece it is, tell your team or at least tell one person so they can call you on it when you're not doing it well or they can help you every week. You can check in with them and say, all right, I'm working on it. I did a little better this week and here's what that looked like. So I think getting an accountability buddy is a really good way to make that happen.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (54:03.061)
Absolutely. Well, Cara, here's what I love. I love that you are working. You've built an organization and you're dedicated to retention because that is such a valuable aspect. You know, in today's day and age, right now, the headlines are talking about how AI is taking your job and how, you know, then there's layoffs happening over here. And so there is sort of an innate fear.
around in the news and in the media, in that 24 hour news network you were talking about, there's constant news about all the bad things happening out there. And I love that your focus is around retention and keeping people, making it a magnet organization, making a, good people are the basis for great organizations. And so keeping good people around, finding them and keeping them.
is a skill that every leader needs and every organization needs. And I love that you've just sort of committed, you're all in on this and I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with us about some of that.
Cara Silletto (55:12.625)
Yeah, we love what we do. So thanks for letting us share the message.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (55:16.759)
And for folks who want to keep in touch with you, what's the best way? What do you recommend?
Cara Silletto (55:20.549)
yeah, I'm the only Cara Soletto on LinkedIn and it's Cara with a C and Soletto is not stiletto, which I get all the time, but it's very cool. So if you Google Cara Soletto, you'll still find me. Yep.
Brian Nelson-Palmer (55:29.097)
Brian Nelson-Palmer (55:34.457)
Got it. So find her on LinkedIn to keep in touch. Or of course, I'll drop the links to her organization there too. She's got websites for the organization and for her as well. So I'll make sure if you want her to come and speak or whatever it is, you'll have those links in your episode notes as well for you there. And for you tuning in, think about someone in your life who struggles with this. Productivity, retention,
keeping people, they're driving people away, that kind of stuff. Maybe it's a colleague or a friend. Who's the person? I'm sure you're listening. Somebody came to mind. There was a person that popped in your head. And if you would share the link to this episode specifically with them, I know that Cara and I would love to know that our conversation today not only helped you, but someone who you know that needed to hear this. And we would love to be your excuse to reconnect with that person.
if you haven't talked with them in a long time. And if you want more productivity insights beyond just the podcast, my email subscribers get access to everything that I create. So come join the email list if you haven't already. And I love sharing Productivity Gladiator with you because together these productivity skills are going to change your life. That's a wrap.
Cara Silletto (56:35.229)
Absolutely.