How Hidden Beliefs Are Wrecking Your Productivity - With Rachel Druckenmiller

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Written By Brian Nelson-Palmer
Rachel Druckenmiller and Brian Nelson-Palmer showing rockstar poses

In this eye-opening episode, Brian Nelson-Palmer sits down with Rachel Druckenmiller—keynote speaker, singer-songwriter, and founder of Unmuted—to expose a hidden productivity killer: the quiet, limiting beliefs that shape how we work.

Drawing on her own experience with burnout and recovery, Rachel shares how phrases like “I’m not the kind of person who…” silently sabotage high performers—and how reframing identity-based self-talk can shift everything.

Listeners will walk away with powerful mindset tools, including Rachel’s go-to reframe question—“What kind of person do I want to be?”—and a deeper understanding of how imposter syndrome, perfectionism, and internal narratives impact productivity.

Want to go deeper? Check out the show notes and resources linked in the episode!

The Video

The Audio/Podcast

Read About It

Want to read up on the topic? Check out the research and blog post I created on the topic.

References In This Episode

Brian Nelson-Palmer and Rachel Druckenmiller Smiling

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Hidden Beliefs and Self-Talk

02:33 Understanding Hidden Beliefs and Their Impact

04:48 The Power of Identity Statements

07:15 Self-Sabotage and Productivity

09:36 Fear and Its Role in Productivity

11:53 The Importance of Saying No

14:26 Recognizing Mindset vs. Skills Issues

16:37 Procrastination as a Mindset Indicator

18:57 Rewiring Unhelpful Beliefs

21:44 Conclusion and Personal Reflections

22:36 The Power of Questions Over Statements

24:01 Rediscovering Childhood Wonder and Capability

24:48 The Dunning-Kruger Effect and Self-Perception

26:15 Embracing New Identities Through Action

28:32 The Journey to Becoming a Singer-Songwriter

33:10 Claiming Your Identity and Overcoming Limiting Beliefs

37:59 Transforming Self-Talk and Identity Questions

42:45 Future Aspirations: Music and Authorship

Today’s Guest

Rachel Druckenmiller

Keynote Speaker, TEDx Speaker, Leadership Trainer, Singer-Songwriter
Founder of Unmuted

Rachel Druckenmiller is a keynote speaker, TEDx presenter, and the founder of Unmuted, a leadership and learning consultancy that helps people tap into greater clarity, confidence, and courage. With nearly two decades of experience, Rachel works with organizations, associations, and teams to amplify purpose, strengths, and impact—starting from the inside out.

She’s been recognized by Forbes as a Next1000 honoree, named a “40 Under 40 Game Changer” by Workforce Magazine, and selected by Smart Meetings as a “Best of the Stage” speaker. Whether she’s leading a training or delivering a keynote, Rachel brings a refreshing blend of vulnerability, energy, and practical insight that helps people rethink burnout, rebuild self-belief, and re-engage with work in meaningful ways.

Outside of speaking, Rachel is a singer-songwriter with original music streaming on all major platforms and a debut book launching in Fall 2026. She's also a fan of fresh air, unfiltered conversations, and singing Disney songs with full confidence—even in the cereal aisle.

Connect with her at:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/racheldruckenmiller
Website: racheldruckenmiller.com

Why Subscribe To The Email List: Brian shares separate hacks, tips, and actionable learning exclusively for his email subscribers. Sign up so you don’t miss out!

About The Creator/Host: I’m Brian. At age 4, I was diagnosed with insulin dependent (type 1) diabetes and told that my life was going to be 10-20 years shorter than everyone else. As a kid I took time for granted, but now as an adult, time is the most precious thing that I have. After spending a career hands-on in the trenches as a leader at all levels, I now train Productivity Gladiators to level up their careers. Graduates wield superpowers in time management, practical leadership, communication, & productivity. If what you’ve seen here intrigues you, reach out, let’s chat!

“Time is the currency of your life, spend it wisely.”

 

Transcript

Brian Nelson-Palmer (00:06)

I'm Brian Nelson Palmer and on this show I share personal practical productivity skills that will advance your career. And in this episode, we're talking about how hidden beliefs and self-talk are wrecking your productivity. And with me on the show today is Rachel Druckenmiller, who's a keynote speaker and a singer songwriter. She's the founder of her company Unmuted. Rachel, thanks so much for being on the show today.

Rachel Druckenmiller (00:30)

I stoked to be here. I worked in corporate for 13 years. I was the director of well-being and employee engagement. So I worked with organizations to help them improve their workplace culture, to help their people improve their well-being. And frankly, to do a thing I didn't know that I was doing, which is what I really do now as a speaker, which is to unleash purpose, potential and possibility in people to help them.

step into what they're capable of to realize that. And so much of that starts with shifting how they perceive themselves and how they talk about themselves, which is a lot of what we're going to dig into here today.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (01:02)

There's there's plenty of people that talk about the stuff that you talk about. So what do you think makes you a little different from everybody else that's out?

Rachel Druckenmiller (01:08)

I think a couple of things, one, so I mean, have my background. I have a background in psychology, bachelor's in psychology, a master's degree in health science. And I am, my friend described it, it's a phrase I love. She says, Rachel, you are a contender for breakthrough in every area of your life.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (01:21)

Ooh, say more. OK, like what?

Rachel Druckenmiller (01:23)

So

I am so curious about wanting to understand myself, wanting to improve myself, wanting to dig deeper, wanting to peel back the layers, whether it's with a therapist or a coach who I've spent hundreds of hours with both of those people. I mean, a lot of time. And even my therapist, you know you're on to something when your therapist says, most people are not willing to be this honest with themselves.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (01:38)

Uh-huh.

Rachel Druckenmiller (01:47)

And your ability to keep being brave and talking about this is really admirable. When they stop you in middle of a session and you've known them for four years and they tell you that you're like, I guess this isn't normal to be so inquisitive to desire to be so self-aware and to want to shift yourself out of these places of stuckness. So for me, I, I am not just talking about this. not just reading about this. I am living this and I have been living this for a long time. So I come at this from a, from a place of lived experience.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (01:48)

Thank

Rachel Druckenmiller (02:14)

I deeply value learning about myself, about other people. And I want to unlock that capacity in other people to realize that there's so much to discover about yourself that is good and that is exciting and that is interesting. And I feel like I'm a catalyst who gets to help people do that. those are some things that I think make me different.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (02:32)

Nice. And

So first, right off the bat, what are we talking about when we say hidden beliefs and self-talk?

Rachel Druckenmiller (02:39)

So I think in a of a general way of looking at it, it's these silent narratives, these quiet stories that live in our minds that shape our behaviors. And they shape how we show up. So there are systems of beliefs that we have that we often come by very honestly from experiences we've had from the time we were itty bitty, those are usually when they start. And often if it's a recurring issue that's coming up in your life, it's very likely that it's rooted in something from childhood, isn't everything.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (03:02)

Sure. Yep. Absolutely.

Rachel Druckenmiller (03:04)

And so there's these pervasive beliefs that show up and these beliefs that are beneath the behaviors affect the way that we show up, affect the way that we see what is possible in ourselves. And there's certain narratives that we might carry that would influence the way that we show up, the extent to which we're productive. might be, know, if I don't do it all, I'm going to let people down. This is a very common belief people have. If I don't do it all, I have to be the strong one.

I have to have it together. And even if you're burning out, which was absolutely something that happened to me, I was like, on the surface, everyone will see that I am competent and capable and smart and that I know what I'm doing. Even though underneath of all of that, I was anxious and overworked and burned out and terrified to ask for help, which eventually led me to crash and burn.

at 32 years old when I was the director of well-being at my company after I had just been recognized as the number one health promotion professional in the United States.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (03:58)

It's like the biggest, that's like the plot of a movie, Rachel. That's like, I mean, it's like the, here she is, the picture of perfect. And she is literally coming apart at the seams in the, but keep it together, Rachel, keep it. Like, man, yep.

Rachel Druckenmiller (04:13)

Yeah. So the narratives on the surface

was like, she's so productive. She's so accomplished. And I was, I got a lot done. And I did it at the expense of my own health and wellbeing because of the way that I was going about doing it, which was I have to solo this. I have to be the best at all times. I can't take a break. I can't not know. I can't need help. And so all those beliefs that I had affected my ability ultimately to be productive. Cause when you're burned out newsflash, you are not productive.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (04:37)

one of the narratives I hear is that people say I'm terrible at email and that comes from the fact that they just have a lot of emails in their inbox. So the story that they tell themselves is I'm terrible at email

it's like they put themselves in their own dungeon and they'll just never be good at it. That's that is so easy to fix, but you have to learn how to do it and you have to stop telling yourself that What else? Yeah, OK.

Rachel Druckenmiller (04:59)

Well, anything, can I speak to that really quick? Because you just brought up a really good point.

Anything that follows the words, I am, is a declaration about your identity.

I'm not the kind of person who's organized. I'm not the kind of person who can stay on top of things. anything that follows that I am phrase is a declaration about your identity and your identity is going to, we learn about this a lot from James Clear and his work in Atomic Habits. Anything that is rooted in a sense of identity is going to win out every time.

And so the stories we tell ourselves, again, those inner narratives, those quiet stories we tell ourselves, are often rooted in some version of I am or I am not. And we will stay stuck in that as long as we are telling ourselves that story. So if I say, for instance, I'm the kind of person who gets things done, and I am. Like that is an identity statement about me. I am the kind of person who gets things done. And so when I'm looking at something and I'm not getting it done, I have a relevant example that might be useful to.

people listening, like a little story about that. I am writing a book right now, my first book, and I have been kicking the can down the road. had a version of the manuscript done a year ago. I'd been working with my editor. They gave me a deadline of when the manuscript is due. And can I tell you that for a good six to eight weeks, I wrote literally nothing. And I thought, well, if you're going to write your book, you have to write. So what's going on here? And part of it was that it felt

Brian Nelson-Palmer (05:53)

Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (06:18)

too big for me to start. And so I've heard people say before, if you're not doing the thing that you say you want to do, the first step isn't small enough. I've people say that.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (06:28)

Mmm.

Rachel Druckenmiller (06:28)

And also I was feeling conflicted because I thought I'm the kind of person who gets things done. I want to be an author. This is an identity I want to have. Why am I not doing this? And so what I had to do is I had to figure out, okay, in the times when I am most productive and most focused, because we can be very busy and unfocused, which is often what sabotages productivity. When I am at my best, I am not at this computer.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (06:47)

Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (06:52)

I'm in a different space. need to go somewhere else, whether that's a coworking space or the upper level of a Whole Foods where they have people, know, tables people can sit at. And I put on like, you know, coherent breathing meditation on my shocks, headphones, and I zone the heck out and I have large blocks of time. So for me, I need to look at the environment. What is the area that I needed to be able to do this? Not at my desk. I need to go somewhere else.

I need to be in a space where there's some energy and some movement and some sounds, and I need to have a strategy for how to drown it out. And I need to have a large chunk of time that is set aside on my calendar to be able to focus on that so that I know I'm not going to be interrupted and I know I can get into flow. I did that last Sunday. I got one chapter done. I did it again yesterday. I got another chapter done and I'm like, we are off to the races. Let's go. Cause I'm back to that identity. I know I'm the kind of person that gets things done.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (07:21)

Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (07:42)

How do I set up my environment to allow me to be that kind of person?

Brian Nelson-Palmer (07:46)

Nice and you know for you listening, hit pause on this episode real quick and just write down. Think about yourself as a professional right now and write down all of the I am and I am not statements that are in your head right now. Just rapid fire. Just do it. Just pause.

and write all the I am and the I am nots about work and think about it. Think I am and I am not and just do that right now. Hit pause, go. you're going to find all kinds of interesting things when you do that about the I am and the I am not. There's a lot of beliefs. that's just my little invitation to you. let's keep going. So how do they secretly wreck productivity?

Rachel Druckenmiller (08:22)

So what they end up doing is they lead to self-sabotage. And I have asked over the past few years a question of many, many different audiences. Many of them are people leaders at organizations, because I often speak at HR conferences. So this is a group that I spend a lot of time with. And I ask them to share with me through a tool that they can submit their response and we can see them all on the screen, what is one way you are silencing, doubting, or holding yourself back that you would like to overcome?

And I have thousands of those responses from people over the past few years. And they're the most common thread that I see in people's responses is that the thing that holds them back is fear, which is not surprising, but what kinds of fear, fear of failure, judgment, rejection, not being good enough, rocking the boat, disappointing somebody, fear of being seen as an imposter, which is very common when people are in transitional roles where someone's been promoted, where someone's stepping into a new position and they're thinking to themselves,

Is everyone gonna find out or when is everyone gonna find out that I don't know what I'm doing? When is the other shoe gonna drop? And there's this narrative that is running in the back of your mind that does not allow you to be fully present and fully productive because you're spending so much energy wondering if other people are waiting for you to screw up and they are not.

That needs to be said, they are not. They are not waiting for that. They are so busy focused on their own stuff that they're not sitting there looking at you and thinking about how incompetent you are every five minutes. You are wasting your time when you do that. And part of it is a reminder to yourself of saying, if I got invited into this opportunity, it must be because I'm qualified. So I encourage people to borrow other people's belief in you. Somebody put you in that spot.

Somebody thought you were qualified. You may not be there yet, but if you can trust their judgment and you can borrow their belief in you, then you can start acting as if you can start doing the role. You can start stepping into that space. And what I've learned is that confidence is the byproduct of action, that you get more confident doing a thing the more you do the thing. Shocking.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (10:21)

Gosh, can I yes, and

you there, Rachel? Yes. And part of it is everybody in most people in your in an organization, you have a role. And yes, you might not have 20 years of experience doing it and be the absolute best at it. However.

They're counting on you to do it. And if they have the confidence that you can do it, then really show up and do the part that the organization needs. So even if it doesn't feel like you're an old pro at it, that doesn't mean that it's not really important that you keep doing the thing so that everybody can keep working.

And like it's a team, it's a team effort. Work as a team sport.

Rachel Druckenmiller (10:56)

Yes,

it's so true. I think the other thing, mean, the self-sabotage is part of this, but I think the other thing, the way these beliefs wreck our productivity is that they hijack our ability to say no.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (11:06)

Ooh, say more.

Rachel Druckenmiller (11:07)

So we have a belief a lot of times that if I say no to something someone asks me to do, then I am not being a team player, then I'm going to let them down, then I'm going to disappoint them, then they're going to think less of me. And back to what you mentioned earlier about the story I'm telling myself is if I say no to this, then I'm going to be judged. And sometimes we don't ever check that.

We don't ever check that for accuracy. And we go on perpetuating this belief that keeps us stuck. So there's a question I love to invite people to ask themselves that is a, it's a boundary setting question. It's a question that helps you to prioritize what matters most, which I think is a big part of being productive. And the question is, if I say yes to this, what am I saying no to that matters to me and to those I care about?

Brian Nelson-Palmer (11:54)

Ooh, opportunity cost. There it is. Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (11:56)

Yes.

I say yes. Because every yes comes with a no, right? Every single yes, you say yes, you think, I'm in this role. If I don't say yes to everything, they're going to kick me off the team. No, actually, your ability to say no is a reflection of your wisdom and discernment and understanding of your capacity. And it actually could help you to be more respected if you are able to, if you truly do not have the capacity to do something, to speak up and say, these are the priorities that I've been given.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (12:01)

Thank

Rachel Druckenmiller (12:22)

It looks like this is something else that you would like me to do. I want to make sure that I focus on what is most important to you and to the team based on the current priorities. Which of these should I focus on right now? And is there, can we either delegate or delay or deflect this other thing you want me to do in some way and to take initiative and be willing to step in that leaders do stuff like that. Leaders are discerning and leaders know how to prioritize.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (12:45)

Big time. You know, we're talking about this. Can we? How can someone recognize if their productivity struggles are caused by mindset rather than just poor skills like time management or something?

Rachel Druckenmiller (12:59)

So I think part of it again, goes back to this belief part of things. Because there are systems that need to be in place. I mean, know something James Clear says is we either rise to the level of our systems

rise or fall to the level of our system, something like that. And botching is cool, but there's some version of like, you do need to have some type of systems in place. Again, like I shared with the book writing, my system is get in a new environment, put the music on, have a block of time. So systems do matter, but if it's a recurring issue, that over and over again, you just can't seem to get this thing done. That is a priority for you, whether it's you mentioned earlier, keeping your inbox organized, or maybe your office is a disaster. Earlier this week, my office was kind of a mess.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (13:21)

Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (13:38)

and there were paper stacked and scattered everywhere. And every time I walked in here, I had like this low grade anxiety, which I think is relatable for a lot of people because the condition of your physical space affects your ability to focus. It does. We know that. And so if you step into a space and the first thing you feel is anxiety and overwhelm because there's piles of stuff everywhere that is gonna limit your ability to be productive. And so for...

Brian Nelson-Palmer (13:44)

You

Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (14:03)

For me, in that type of situation, I kind of understood, all right, what I need to do in this moment is I need to create some time to clear out some space so that I have bit of sanity and peace in this space. What can I do to create a sense of peace in my space? So in that type of situation, that wasn't a mindset. That was a systems thing. I needed to create a space that was going to allow me to be as productive and focused as possible. But I think if we...

notice that we keep dropping the ball or we notice we miss a deadline or we're falling behind. And our response is, I'm lazy, I'll never get it together. Everyone else seems to be able to do this. What's wrong with me? If it's a pattern of shame that's rooted in shame, perfectionism or fear, that very likely is a mindset issue and not a systems issue.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (14:48)

Shame. Say those three again.

Rachel Druckenmiller (14:50)

Shame, perfectionism, and fear.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (14:52)

shame, perfectionism, and fear. Okay?

Rachel Druckenmiller (14:54)

you know, like what's at the root of this? What seems to be beneath this? What is driving this? And when you're calling yourself lazy, when you're making a judgment, chances are if you're making a judgment about yourself, if whatever is going on between your ears is not something you would say aloud to another person, it is rooted in shame, perfectionism, or fear. Like I can just about guarantee it if you would not say that aloud to somebody else.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (15:09)

Yeah.

Gosh, yes.

And you know, I feel like the number one easy indicator to see is going to be procrastination.

procrastination to me is like the big light bulb that this might be a mindset thing that is holding you back, not skills or software or what that is. that's, yeah, you're putting it off, you're kicking the can, just like you with writing the book, just like whatever it is, there's a mindset thing here that you need to fix.

Rachel Druckenmiller (15:43)

And also when your identity is wrapped up in doing everything perfectly and alone, there are no amount of productivity hacks that are going to save you.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (15:49)

Yes.

Rachel Druckenmiller (15:50)

It's not going to happen. You know, and I get that because I've lived a lot of my life that way. was, mean, I still do. This is not, I'm not going to pretend I've arrived and I've solved the problem of the high performer that has a exponentially high bar that keeps raising itself all the time. I'm still that person. have greater awareness of it. Now I have greater, better ways to respond to it. I have healthier ways to handle it. I am still, and will always be that person that is in my DNA. It's the extent to which I allow that.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (16:12)

Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (16:15)

to run the show versus stepping back and saying, hey, I'm noticing this. Sometimes procrastination could be a sign of wisdom. Sometimes procrastination could be a sign that maybe this isn't the biggest priority. Because if this were really important, you would get it done.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (16:29)

True.

Rachel Druckenmiller (16:29)

So it can be a sign of wisdom, perhaps. It could also, again, like we said before, procrastination could be a sign that the first step isn't small enough. That could be another reason we're procrastinating, or it could be rooted in a belief that if I do this, this is a story I tell myself about what's gonna happen. And I have an example of this. A friend of mine got a new job recently, and she's the mom of two kids.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (16:38)

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (16:51)

And she

has a list of doctor's appointments and upcoming vacations that she has to tell her boss about. The story she's telling herself is, if I tell my boss about these things, this is not going to be a good look. My boss is maybe going to judge me as not being a team player or that here I go taking this new job. I had to enter like pattern interrupt, stop the loop and say to her, Hey,

That is a story that you are telling yourself. You do not actually have evidence that that is how your boss is going to respond. So what could be helpful is to go to your boss and say, hey, I know I'm new here. I'm so grateful to have this job. I wanted to come to you because I trust you, and I know that you want me to succeed. The story I'm telling myself right now is I have some upcoming doctor's appointments for myself and my kids and some vacation time that's already been booked. And I'm telling myself that

If I come to you with those, I'm going to be judged as looking like I'm not a team player or that I'm trying to get out of work. I know that I'm a hard worker. I know that I'm going to get everything done. I'm spending a lot of energy focusing on a story that may not be true. Could you give me your insight on what your perception of that is?

Brian Nelson-Palmer (17:48)

You listening right now, I bet you absolutely thought, my God, she's crazy. No, that's not what I would think of you at all. Like that was the reaction I was having when you said that it was like if I was that boss, no, take the freaking doctor's appointments. Like, I mean, yes, you got to get your stuff done, but I'm not tracking whether you had a doctor appointment while you were getting stuff done. Like, are you serious right now? That's not a thing I got.

So I hope you listening had that same reaction because Anytime you've been through a career transition where you got anything coming up that's important in your personal life and all of a sudden that little story like, my God, I've heard that story. The story just that I have heard that story in my head so many times in my career. It's not helpful.

Rachel Druckenmiller (18:28)

No, it's not. it's sabotaging your productivity because you think about, first of all, the energy it takes to avoid an important conversation. Your mental energy is wasted. You the energy it takes to have all this anxiety and worry about something that may not actually have any reason for you to have anxiety or worry.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (18:36)

Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (18:45)

And then you think about the relief that you feel once you have the conversation you've been avoiding that then allows you to be more focused and more productive. So those beliefs are so connected to our ability to get things done, to focus and to be productive.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (18:57)

All right. Well, I feel like we've really looked into and opened up the can on the problem. What is the first step to rewiring those unhelpful beliefs or that self talk?

Rachel Druckenmiller (19:10)

So the first step, I think, is to be curious, to notice without judgment. So we have a tendency to be very harsh on ourselves, especially if we're high performers, high achieving people. And so to notice without judgment. gosh, I'm noticing that I'm doing this. I can't believe you're having this thought. What's wrong with you? That's so not helpful, not do that. So let's a series of questions to think about, to ask yourself. OK. Hey.

And this first one is influenced by James Clear's work. What kind of person do I want to be right now? I want to be the kind of person who speaks up when I have something that I need to share. I to be the type of person who doesn't let anxiety and worry and fear drive my behaviors. I want to be the type of person who stands up for myself and asks for what I need and advocates for myself. Okay, let me first establish, because again, that's the belief, the identity. That's the identity.

kind of person do I want to be? Let me get clear and then get grounded and rooted in my identity. That is like one of the most important first steps. What is the cost of me holding on to this belief that is potentially sabotaging and silencing me? What is the cost? I'm less productive, I'm less focused, I have unnecessary worry and anxiety. What are the costs? It's affecting maybe my relationship with this person because I'm holding something back, maybe they can sense it. I don't even realize that they can sense that. So what is the cost? then...

Brian Nelson-Palmer (20:18)

Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (20:20)

What becomes possible if I shift the way that I think about this? What is the best possible outcome that could happen if I advocate for myself and if I change this belief to perhaps its counter? What is the best possible? When we put ourselves into a space of possibility and capability, it's very empowering and it gets us out of a place of stuckness. So it's like interrupting the loop. We have to address the beliefs underneath of the behaviors to question them, to think about what the costs are.

to ask ourselves the kind of person that we want to be and then to say, OK, best case scenario, what becomes possible if I actually take action on this thing and stop just milling it around in my head over and over?

Brian Nelson-Palmer (20:54)

And for and for you, if you are the type of person who has an abusive self-talk because there are people out there who I you know, they I'm so stupid or I'm so bad about that or I'm so if you could just reframe that self-talk into questions instead of statements, how different would your life be like? Holy smokes. Instead of I'm so stupid. What if it's I wonder why I didn't know about that?

Or I want like that will send you instead of shutting you down, it will just send you in a different direction. And man, you get a lot further if instead of stopping, you just redirect and redirect and redirect. So even even that, I love the question approach, man, that that is, I feel like that's a really I want to hold on to that one, Rachel, because I definitely am the in the the limiting beliefs sometimes imposter syndrome. I totally suffer.

from imposter syndrome, because the story in my head is that I haven't done it long enough. I haven't done it enough. I don't have enough credentials. Or the one for me is like, I don't have a doctorate. I don't have a Ph.D. in whatever this is. And when I go to conferences and places and people talk about they have Ph.D.s in this stuff, I have two voices in my head. I have the one that's like, well, Brian, you don't have a Ph.D. You don't. You know, so so what do you really know about this topic?

And then I have the confidence side of me that's like, no, actually I have an entire freaking career on productivity and how to do this. And like you said in your introduction, like I have lived this, I've lived this, I've taught teams that have done this. I've taught other organizations that do this. I have helped so many people with these things and I know that it works and I have evidence that it works.

that doesn't stop the imposter. it's just so, my gosh, it's just so funny. So if you just change it to questions with, man, how different would your life be if it was questions instead of statements?

Rachel Druckenmiller (22:39)

Yeah.

You mentioned a word that I think is really important and that's the word wonder. Because children naturally do this. Children are naturally curious. Children naturally approach the world with a sense of wonder instead of judgment because they don't until we mess them up. Kids aren't inherently judgmental, you know? They're naturally curious. They naturally wonder. They naturally assume that they are capable of so much until we tell them they are not.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (23:00)

Yeah.

Right.

True story. At what point in your life, think back for yourself, at what point in your life did you stop thinking you were capable of anything? Because I know my five-year-old self thought I could do whatever. What do you want to be when you grow up? I'm going to be the president of the United States. that? Totally. Your five-year-old self could do anything. When did that stop? What the heck? Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (23:13)

So that is in all of us. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And even the phrase, can, you know, I remember I had an assignment when I was a sophomore in high school and we had to make a list of statements. It was like, I can, I am, I am capable of. And so sometimes if we're, you know, if we're taking that moment to pause and think about, okay, I would, how would you complete those sentences? What are some of the things that you are capable of doing or, I am good at? I often ask people to share, you know, what is something about yourself that you're proud of value or appreciate?

Brian Nelson-Palmer (24:01)

Mm-hmm.

Rachel Druckenmiller (24:02)

And it's interesting to me that sometimes I've had people come up to me afterwards and say, could not come up with an answer to that question, which It breaks my heart they are not the only one who struggles with that. And part of the reason for that is because we've been told from a young age, don't toot your own horn, let your work speak for itself. You know, don't be too high on yourself. Don't, don't do that. And so we are taught

Part of that is something that sabotages us. So those are again, back to the beliefs and back to the narratives and the stories about how we're supposed to be. Those then affect how we show up because we were told, you know, you got to kind of keep that down, shrink yourself, be quiet, be small, don't be too much, which then affects the way that we show up. But there's something I learned about, this is a really cool psychological concept I learned about recently. It's called the Dunning-Kruger effect. This is going to resonate.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (24:37)

Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (24:48)

the people that are the least competent are often the ones that are the most confident because they don't know what they don't know. So people that are actually the least competent show up as know-it-alls because they don't know what they don't know or their insecurity is masking that. Often the people that are the most competent,

struggle internally with a sense of their own capability and their own sense of confidence, they underestimate themselves because they are focused so much on all that they don't know and all that they haven't done. They have this bigger awareness gap, of the gaps that they have between what they do know what they don't know versus somebody who's really not competent at all is just sort of blind to that. And then they show up like a know-it-all.

So oftentimes the people that are the most competent are the ones that doubt themselves the most.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (25:33)

Big man, there's so many I'm having so many synapses firing right now about like that there's so many examples where that's a thing. That's an interesting and you know, there's probably a bunch of science that supports that and there's plenty of studies that could go against that and say that's not true. But I hope the one takeaway from all of that is like

You we just said earlier that you just have to step in and do it and you'll get better and better as you do it more. So just start. And actually, I want to yes. And you hear. Yes, that's true. And I want you to talk about how because I don't think you listening know that Rachel has now started doing some music stuff. So talk about how that connection happened with. This.

Rachel Druckenmiller (26:11)

Hmm.

Well,

this was very much rooted in belief. So from the time I was a little girl, was very shy and very quiet and very guarded. I was a perfectionist. I was a high achiever, straight A student. It mattered to me. I followed the rules. I mean, I was such a rule follower. I want to paint a picture. I was not the most popular child in fifth grade because I was the kid who raised my hand to tell our teacher, hey, weren't we supposed to have a quiz today? She promised we were going to have a quiz and she hadn't given it to us yet. And it was 15 minutes into class.

And at 10, I raise my hand to remind her, we have to make sure we're following the rules. Okay, that makes you no friends quickly when you're 10. So I want to paint a picture of the type of child.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (26:46)

Okay, alright

that Rachel got it. man, and I just there's a piece of me that's like and I hated that kid too like guys you're gonna be that girl come on Rachel. Okay alright I got it.

Rachel Druckenmiller (27:00)

Yeah, nobody liked that kid.

I didn't care. I was so focused on being right, even if it was the expense of socially fitting in. But looking back, I would have maybe done some things differently. All that to say, I loved singing when I was alone. For me, it was the only place that I felt free and alive was when I would sing in room with the doors closed and put these headphones on, turn the music up so loud that I couldn't even hear the sound of my own voice. I was that self-conscious.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (27:07)

Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (27:22)

I wouldn't audition for choir. When I was in high school, I went to an all girls school. They had this concert choir. They wore long black gowns and pearl necklaces. Wouldn't audition for that. Too risky. Those 10 seconds of singing in front of another person's solo. Forget about it. What happened, and again, I feel like there's a thread and a theme here in the conversation today, is that I shifted my environment, my junior year of college. I studied abroad in Spain for a semester. And that culture is...

vibrant and animated and alive. And as I like to say, very unmuted. was highly expressive. There was dancing, there was music, there was color. It was very social. And I was immersed in this for four months. And then I came back from that and our college had a gospel choir that was really good. And you didn't have to audition to get in. So I was in it because I could sing, blend in, hide without taking a risk. So best case scenario. But if you wanted to solo at the spring concert, right? It took me 20 years to get there.

But if you wanted a solo, you had to audition. And there was something about being in that new environment where I challenged myself, where I was surrounded by the type of people I really wanted to be like. So that's another way to think about this. If you want to be a certain type of person and you don't feel you are that way already, how can you surround yourself with the kind of people that you want to be more like?

So I auditioned very nervously for this solo and I got it. I got the solo, I got a solo every semester after that. I started to find a little more courage to sing. And then for 15 years, I sang at church, but other than that, I did nothing with music. It wasn't until the pandemic happened that, and I was actually involved in a car accident in May of 2020, I was out running with my husband and I was hit by a pickup truck and fractured my back.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (28:59)

my God.

Rachel Druckenmiller (29:01)

So

it was already a dumpster fire of a year. was like, know, zero stars, don't recommend this, this is the worst. So I'm going through all of this and I realized, you know, when you have a brush with death like that, you get a new perspective on things.

And there was that little nine-year-old in me that was nudging me like, do that music thing. What about that music thing? So here I am 35 years old, starting to listen to this voice for the first time. Okay, what kind of person do I want to be? I want to be the kind of person who is more comfortable singing in front of people. How do I do that? I work with a vocal coach and I practice and I show up and I get on there and I start sharing my voice. I would share little snippets of things on LinkedIn.

little videos where I'd sing things like, Hakuna Matata, what a wonderful phrase. And I would share these snippets of videos, put it out there. Confidence is the byproduct of action. I took action. I put it out there. I became more of the type of person I said I wanted to be by doing the things that type of person would do. I take these voice lessons a year and a half in, a coach says to me, Rachel, you should put music videos out on LinkedIn. Why would I do that?

Brian Nelson-Palmer (29:59)

Hahaha!

Rachel Druckenmiller (30:00)

And she

said, it's a differentiator. So I, I'm the type of person who likes to be seen as different. It matters to me. That matters to me. I like to be a special snowflake.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (30:06)

⁓

I am comparing in my head the Rachel who reminded the teacher of the quiz in fifth grade and the Rachel who is a special snowflake. this is so good.

Rachel Druckenmiller (30:12)

Hahaha

I know I like beat when someone says hey you could be different if I'm like tell me more lean in I like to be seen as different and original and somebody who's not just following the crowd and doing what everybody else is doing that matters to me So I didn't know how to do that again if the first step is not small enough. We're not gonna start How in the heck do I do a music video? Well, let me first back it up and see who I could connect to who's even doing anything with music

So I found a guy locally who was a composer and a producer who had just started a music production company. I reached out to somebody in that world. I said, do you know anyone that does this? Yeah, Leroy, talk to Leroy. So Leroy and I get together. We're going to record covers. Covers of what songs? I have no idea. So I get into his basement studio and he looks at me and he says, what do you want to write your first song about? Now we're talking about previously feeling qualified, feeling like an imposter. Okay. I do not play any instruments.

I cannot read music and I have zero background or training in songwriting.

So he says, right, what do you want to your first song about? That seems like a ridiculous question.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (31:19)

Hahaha

Rachel Druckenmiller (31:19)

But then I thought to myself, Rachel, your voice has always been this thing that's a part of you, that you have hidden, that you want to share. You want to be the type of person who shares your voice with people more. And you are somebody as a speaker who has a message on your heart and who has ability to weave words together in a way that impacts people profoundly. You are more than capable of doing this. So I borrowed his belief. He thinks I can do it. And we...

sat down together, he complimented my skill set, he did all the things I don't know how to do, like compose music and all of that, arrange it. And then five months later on my first song called Somebody dropped on Spotify. And I lost my ever loving mind when I first saw it. My husband recorded the video, it was 1201 AM on January 26th. I started sobbing, I was beside myself because it was like this identity that I always wanted to have.

caught up with and aligned with the action that I was taking. He said I wanted to be a singer, but I could never see myself as a singer. I would never say, I'm a singer. I would say, I like to sing. There's a difference between I like to sing and I am a singer. One is a behavior, one is an identity. So when I started releasing music, I'm like, Rachel, you can no longer hide from the label of I am a singer-songwriter because you are undeniably a singer-songwriter.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (32:19)

Yeah, true.

Actually, no, that's not true, Rachel. You could continue to deny it and continue to deny it even though you are. That also is a thing, but props to you for switching.

Rachel Druckenmiller (32:34)

Touche.

Touche, because we do that, right? We're in a role. We step into a role in a job, and we say, I'm not this. And yes, you are.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (32:43)

Right, currently if I look at your current position and title and everything that you're doing day to day, it says that you are and yet you still say that you're not. What the? Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (32:53)

So that took a long time. It was a long process, but it was that staying committed to, want to step into this identity of who I've always said from the earliest days that I can remember of the type of person I want it to be. I'm the type of person who shares my voice with people.

And who shares my music with people and who shares my message. And now I've released four songs. have a, my first cover is coming out. I've released a music video that was on a billboard in Times Square. mean, I'm doing the thing. And the nine-year-old me, I'm 40 now. My nine-year-old self is like, we're doing the thing that we said we wanted to do. And I can't even tell you how good it feels when you step into the identity, when you claim it. There is something that is so freeing and empowering and, and

Brian Nelson-Palmer (33:26)

Yeah.

Rachel Druckenmiller (33:38)

It hits you in the depth of your soul when you step into the thing that you said you wanted to do and you own that identity instead of pushing it away.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (33:45)

Yep, and for you listening, I'm going to have the link to her video and her the all these links so you can check out Spotify and Times Square and the video and all that stuff. I'm to have that for you in your notes, so please check it out so that you can see that she's really like she really did. She doing this. It's not just a for the sake of talking to Brian on this podcast like no, it's this is this is real and.

And Rachel, I want to yes, end you on this one too, because I was the drummer in a award winning rock band for five years and late in life. Also, I grew up, was was I was the drummer kid. I was in band. I was in every kind of band. I was an all state band. I was in jazz band. I was in I played every kind of drum and percussion that you could do. And then I got to college and I quit. was at the I was on the drum line at Florida State and I quit the band.

and decided to go in a different direction. And I left drums behind. And fast forward 20 plus years later, now I'm in my thirties and my life was in one of the, was having one of those moments where everything in life is just not going well. I, their relationship had broken off and I was just in the dumps and my buddy texted me at one 30 in the morning drunk and said, I'm starting a band. Are you in? And it was like,

Yes, yes, I am in and I I'm not a professional drummer. I'm not any kind of like I did it in school. But in my mind, if you did it in school, that doesn't count. Right. And so then we started playing in a band and we played our first show and our first show was nothing but cover songs. And people had a great time and there was positive reinforcement. And so one.

Cover show led to another show that was mostly covers, but we had come up with one original and we started writing music. And so ultimately in the end, five years later, I had played more than a hundred shows all over the region, the DMV region, DC, Maryland and Virginia. And we won the Whammy Award for the best rock band and the rest best rock song. And

And so I look back at that and like, and I, that was a chapter of my life. And I, I don't do that now anymore. Now, productivity gladiator is my thing and I'm a speaker and I love that stuff. But I also really love that chapter because it was this whole thing that I, I'm the drummer in an award winning rock band. never in a million years would I think that that would happen,

I love what you said about letting go of the statement and making it a question instead. Well, what would happen if I decided to play drums in a band? What would Holy Smokes? Here's what happened. So I will. And I'll share my I don't talk about fellow craft very much because this is productivity gladiator, but I'll certainly share the link to the two albums that we put out and the song that won the award for best rock song.

Rachel Druckenmiller (36:21)

Mm-hmm.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (36:36)

So I hope that after this podcast episode, you'll just check out some music by Rachel and I, because that's just a fun thing.

Rachel Druckenmiller (36:42)

That's so cool. And you are, right? It's still, and the thing is, the thing I always think of when we try to disconnect ourselves from an identity that's older, is the thing that we have been before, is sort of like, if you won an Oscar in 1978 and it's 2025, you're still an Oscar winner. You still are. Don't take that away from yourself. You know, if you worked for a period of time, then took some time off to raise kiddos or take a pivot in your career,

Brian Nelson-Palmer (36:57)

You still are! So true! It's so true! Yes!

Rachel Druckenmiller (37:10)

You still have value. What you did before, it's not like it doesn't count. You're talking about not counting. That still counts. That is still valid. That still matters. Maybe it's been five years. Maybe it's been 10 years. You still have the skills to do those things. So do not sabotage yourself because of that shift.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (37:11)

my God.

Right?

Yes.

Or if you got laid off and you haven't done it in six months, that doesn't mean you're any less of a professional than you were six months ago. Like it's yeah, exactly. You still get credit for all of that. God. Preach, Rachel. Yes, absolutely. all right. So last thing. So if someone listening realizes that they have limiting beliefs, if any of the stuff we've talked about, if you thought of at least one statement in your brain that was I am not.

if there's something that's wrecking your productivity, what's the one thing that you can start doing today right now to change that?

Rachel Druckenmiller (37:59)

The thing that I would say is the question that shifted things for me about how we change our habits and behaviors. And that is that I'm gonna reinforce and reiterate this. It's the identity question of what kind of person do I want to be and what would that person do in this situation?

get curious about the belief that's running the show and ask yourself, all right, what kind of person do I want to be? And what would that person do in this situation? And if I'm able to do that, it becomes possible in my life and in my work. These are upward spiral possibility oriented questions that allow us to go into a mindset of potential instead of problems. It's generative, it's expansive. It's something that

helps us to move forward and with greater clarity and with greater focus. So what kind of person, what kind of person do you want to be? What would that person do in this situation? Act as if, take on those behaviors, take on the beliefs that that person would have to be able to put those behaviors into practice and start stepping into that place.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (38:55)

And I, my single biggest sort of mind blown moment is when you started talking about ask yourself the question instead of the statement. God, for me, that one is resonating. Like I really want to do that with, cause I have, I have been known to have some abusive self-talk where you're so stupid or you're so whatever. And like, man, what if I force, I force is hard. It's going to be hard to change this. If you've got that programming for as many years as I've been on this planet. my God, it's going to be so hard to do that. But

Do it. But you've got to do it. So, ⁓ man.

Rachel Druckenmiller (39:23)

Yeah, do it. You got to do it. Yeah. And look for,

look for proof though. Look for, I had a coach do this. I'll say this as one bonus piece of content here. A few years ago, after I burned out, I worked with a coach named Rosie Ward and she took me through a process called immunity to change, which is a process out of Harvard to Lisa Leahy and Bob Keegan. And we, we established myself sabotage statements. My big assumption, the belief underneath why I was sabotaging myself, which was that if I put myself out there and then people won't accept me.

and if they don't accept me and they're not impressed by me then I won't be the best and if I'm not the best I'm not lovable and I'm not valuable. That was my big belief underneath of it and so what she had me do is she said we're going to test that. We're going to look for proof that that isn't true. You're going to create scenarios where you are going to intentionally and directly challenge that belief. Look for all the areas, look for all the scenarios and all the situations where you are accepted

without having to prove yourself.

and where you can be one of many and not the best and still have value.

And so if you're looking at that, how can I test this assumption that I am making about myself? How can I run an experiment to prove to myself that maybe it isn't as true as I'm telling myself it is?

Brian Nelson-Palmer (40:31)

Yeah. And, you know, if you can come up with an exception to that rule, then that's no longer a rule. Like, it's not that's not a thing. It's just like saying I'm not a speaker. Well, if you've done it once for money, then technically you're a speaker. doesn't matter how much money that was for. It doesn't matter whatever. You know, if you're not an author, but you have a book that's out right now.

then that's not true. Like there's so if you can, if you can find exceptions to the rules, then that's not a thing. And so then it's the power. It's the man and the questions and God, Rachel, this has been so much fun here. Here's what I love. I love that you are doing the thing. I love that you're taking a shot and being the singer songwriter keynote speaker like heck yeah, do that. I was just talking with somebody the other day and they were talking about, I wonder about speakers who are actually

you know, play an instrument or something. And I was like, I know one, you should talk to Rachel. So I love that for you listening, I got to share Rachel with you because I just think it's a very cool and please check out her music and her stuff. I'll share those links in the chat. And, but I love that you're taking this idea and you're wanting with it, Rachel, like just, just do it and please don't stop. Like just keep it going. I love that you're doing this.

Rachel Druckenmiller (41:46)

I promise I'm gonna keep doing the thing. I'm gonna keep stepping into who I say I wanna be. I'm gonna keep taking action to be the kind of person that I've always aspired to be.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (41:55)

I love it. And now a couple of things you had mentioned new songs and you mentioned songs and books. Talk about those real quick.

Rachel Druckenmiller (42:02)

huh.

Yeah. So cover of somewhere over the rainbow is coming out. Yes. It's a jazz version. I will give you that. It's a jazz version. I got a incredible pianist who is playing along accompanying it on a 50 year old upright Yamaha piano.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (42:11)

look at you, all right.

Gosh, for you music nerds, start drooling. Love it. OK.

Rachel Druckenmiller (42:24)

And then my first book is coming out in the fall of 2026. I've always wanted to write a book. I've always wanted to be an author. I have started writing three books. And finally, for the first time in 10 years of wanting to do this, it is happening in the fall of 2026.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (42:40)

Heck yeah. And if they want to keep in touch with you after this so that they can find out about these kinds of things, where should they go?

Rachel Druckenmiller (42:46)

Rachel Druckenmiller.com is the best place to get all my updates. Also LinkedIn, that's, hang out a lot on LinkedIn. You can me on YouTube and Instagram and Spotify, of course. LinkedIn's my jam. That's where I hang out a lot. And I know we love hearing messages from people when they, when they like listen to it, when someone listens to a podcast and someone says, my gosh, that spoke to me so much. And then that person sends a message to us and lets us know. That's, we love it.

Brian Nelson-Palmer (43:11)

Gosh.

Rachel, you took the words right out of my mouth because I was literally about to say, does this, does, do you have a friend or a colleague who you've talked to about this mindset thing or things that have been holding you back? Or even if it's like a music thing, even if you heard them sing and you thought they were good and they said, no, I don't sing. if this reminded you of someone, would you text

this episode specifically to them, because I know that Rachel and I would love to know that our conversation today touched people that are facing this thing too. And realistically, a few texts these days, social media is a crazy spot. There's a lot of things that are out there, but you know, a direct text from you, even if they haven't heard from you in years.

text from you. my gosh. A few texts back and forth. You're going to make their day. You're going to feel good about it. So I just the fact that you thought about them and sent them a message. Please do that because Rachel and I would love to pay that forward for sure. And so also I do more than just podcast all the knowledge that I and help that I share goes to my email subscribers. So if you're not already on the email list, come join the fun. But I love sharing productivity gladiator with you because

Together, these productivity skills are gonna change your life. That's a wrap.

Brian Nelson-Palmer
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